Is knowledge of the world important?

[Martin Guthe]

Humans knew far less about our world 2000 years ago. Would knowing how our universe began or how life began actually help us live better lives in Christ? Does going to church and hearing what someone else thinks and believes help us become "better" or do we think we are better than those who don't believe what we do? Is it not what is in our hearts that matter? Idols fall all the time: Preachers, singers, movie stars, athletes, and rich people. They all knew more than others what it took to become famous. Giving into their temptations brought them down. We know more about medicine and how to save or prolong someone's life. Does living longer make us better in Christ's eyes? God already knows this stuff. Doesn't He just want us to be thankful that he has shared His knowledge with us and wants us to share it. Worldly knowledge is incomplete, it's complicated and it changes as we learn more about it. "to the best of our knowledge..."

Don't we let our "knowledge" get in the way of what God wants us to do. Isn't it a sin to get in the way and think we know better? Doesn't He ask us to trust Him enough to let Him do it. We pray for knowledge to know what He wants us to do and how to avoid temptation. We also pray that others avoid temptation .

He provides all we need to be alive !!! and so much more. If we truly believe in Him, we shall have eternal life !!!!!! Through time, he rids us of our sin (giving into temptations). If we consider it all His (not ours), then we can be grateful for what He has given us to use.

[Paula]

Lots of questions! I decided to take them on one at a time, but I'm thinking you are focused on a point and that's where all the questions originate.

Would knowing how our universe began or how life began actually help us live better lives in Christ? No, not IMO. I don't see how it could.

Does going to church and hearing what someone else thinks and believes help us become "better" or do we think we are better than those who don't believe what we do? I think there are lots of ways to improve ourselves and we sit under all kinds of teachings all the time to improve. Any time we take any kind of class we take it with the intent of learning something and improving in some way. So I think it boils down to what do we take away from what we are hearing? Does the Spirit confirm what is being said or do we sense a warning or does it throw us into confusion? Personally, I don't think I'm better in any way than anyone else. Oh, I guess I might sometimes think I'm better than a murderer or rapist or something like that, but I'm really not. We are ALL sinners, saved by grace. And doesn't the one who has been forgiven much, love much? I've been down the road of spiritual superiority and I never want to go there again. It's really a horrible feeling. And my beliefs have evolved so much that I would never assume that I have the absolute knowledge of what is or the absolute interpretation. Except that I unequivocally believe that God is, and that He loves us, and that He sent His Son and the Holy Spirit to us so that we could be united with Him.

Is it not what is in our hearts that matters? Absolutely. That's what God is all about - what's in our hearts, which is where He resides.

Does living longer make us better in Christ's eyes? No. I don't see why it would.

Doesn't He just want us to be thankful that he has shared His knowledge with us and wants us to share it? I think He wants us to love Him with all our hearts, and love our fellow man and treat each other with dignity and respect.

Don't we let our "knowledge" get in the way of what God wants us to do. Probably sometimes. I can see that. When I'm 'studying' the Bible, what is my purpose? Am I trying to get to know God or am I trying to figure it all out. Or maybe, in light of what you've written, you're talking about knowledge in general. I can see that too. For example, in the CNA class I'm talking, we have discussion questions. One of them was whether we think cloning is immoral. In the scientific search for knowledge, man is trying to play God. I personally don't think that is what He wants us to do.

Isn't it a sin to get in the way and think we know better? A sin? I don't know that I can call it a sin, but perhaps anything that moves us away from God is a sin. To think we know better is definitely wrong thinking, but again, a sin? Not sure.

[John Felkins]

I think being "right" and having info become idols. We are not our brain. That said I think the Bible can help us understand God much more than if we didn't have it. My problem (among others) is that I've had it shoved down my throat so I repel from it. I need to get over that because my aversion is based on people failing me not God failing me. It's not his fault!

[Martin Guthe]

Paula, thanks for the well thought out words.
John, thanks for sharing your struggle.

As some of you know, I let my ex-wife live in one of my rooms rent free. Others have lived here before and paid rent. Well, I knew before I let her move in that she wouldn't find a job and wouldn't clean up after herself. I even do her dishes and clean up after she does her own cooking. She is on food stamps. There is nothing mentally or physically wrong with her. The lessons I have learned from her is how our cultural ways are not necessary for survival. What we think is important, isn't. There is nothing we have to do except eat and stay alive. After losing numerous jobs, being thrown out of numerous apartments etc., she has changed very little in the more than 30 years I've known her. We divorced 20 years ago. Talking to her about it, demanding she clean up after herself, etc. doesn't change anything except for a very short time. She lived here before when our son still lived here. Shortly after he moved out, I kicked her out. This time, I don't say anything about it, I just accept it.

Also, an update on Luke, the homeless man I brought into my home. He was put in jail within a week of moving in and I was able to bail him out a little while later. About 3 weeks later he was arrested again. He has been in jail for almost 2 months. Yesterday he was sentenced to 2 years in prison (I haven't confirmed the sentence time yet). He talked and appeared as a very strong Christian deserving a second chance. I didn't know it, but he was on drugs and stole and burglarized. He never stole anything from me. He only took me up on my offer of a place to stay so he could hide from the police. He continued to use drugs while he lived here and continued to burglarize businesses too. Both my ex and Luke talk a good game. They aren't what they appear to be. Years and years of practice, I guess. As John said, we are not our brain.

Despite all this, I'm going to let others stay in my house for the winter. I have prayed about it and am convinced that is what God wants me to do.

I am thankful that God has shown me how to share what I have with others. I am no better than the people I help out. Friends and family think I should start taking care of myself and live alone. They don't understand why I do what I do over and over again when I get taken advantage of. Despite what has happened to me, I bounce back and have learned much about life. God takes care of my needs and provides for me. God is amazing. I am a sinner just like everyone else. I have gotten frustrated and angry. I have emotionally hurt people. I have been married 4 times and got angry with each one of them and it was me who gave up each time. I haven't been strong enough to make the marriages work. I gave up too easily. I no longer wanted to be married to them. Now I don't even have a desire for a romantic relationship ever again. For me, it's not worth it anymore. Been there, done that, time to move on without it. By the way, I'm still married to the 4th. I just haven't talked to her since February and she filed for divorce in April and nothing ever came of it. I still pray for her and I still pay for her car insurance and health insurance and that's fine with me.

[Paula]

WARNING to other DN: This is about ex-spousal issues which you may not want to read. I was going to take it offline but then I thought that there may be others who have this issue to work through as well, so I'm leaving it here.

Wow, Martin! God has brought you to a great place, He's placed a great gift in you. I get frustrated with my ex for several reasons. He is on disability, has been for 15 years, and in my opinion could work if he really wanted to, but is too strung out on prescription drugs (and has been dependent on something - legal or illegal - for probably 20 years or more). He lives in FL and has a dr. about 30 minutes away from here (NC) and calls one of us every month to go pick up his prescription for Oxycontin, and overnight it to him. Every once in a while he wants to borrow money from ME, who has no money, and yes he does pay it back and I have access to his bank account, but honestly it just pisses me off that he does this. I am always pretty tight on money. Money is my stress point, although I've learned to be better about it, but when the kids are always needing help and then HE calls me to ask for money to help HIM, it pushes my buttons. Normally I just do it, although I may be seething inside. This time, though, when he called to borrow $150 for about 4 days (which would have left me with about $30 till I got it back) to pay for a prescription that he had harassed my daughter (who goes to school and works two jobs - it's about 40 minutes one way for her) about going to pick up for him (and then got angry and hung up on her when she sent it 2 day mail instead of overnight because she didn't have the $ to do that), I let him know how I feel about it. It seems to me like he uses me because he knows I won't say anything. And then of course he tries to make me feel bad because it 'wouldn't have cost me anything' (except trying to find the time and a way to go to the bank to get the money back when I'm sharing a car with my other daughter because hers is in the shop, not to mention leaving me short on cash) and he would never want me to feel like I could never ask him for $ (HA!) which I never have unless one of the kids needs something. Now they're old enough I just tell them to call him themselves. And yes, if he has the money (which is extremely rare) he is generous with it (but then I 'owe' him, even though it's to help out with the kids), and so makes me feel like a real jerk. I just don't think it's my responsibility to take care of him and I'm tired of being a patsy. I know I need to work through this, and I'm sure God is going to take me places I don't really want to go with this. He actually has brought me pretty far in dealing with this situation, it's just that every once in a while I get fed up. And I know that if I'm 'nice' to him, he will just see it as an open door to take advantage of me even more. AND he gets on my very last nerve because he will call to talk and there is no such thing as a short conversation with him (minimum 30-45 minutes) and I hate talking on the phone (especially to him). He's like an old woman, talking about stuff that happened 30 years ago over and over again and telling me how to do stuff (like I need HIS advice! Look at his life!). I think I have no life?? He really has no life!

I can just see you guys reading this thinking, wow! I didn't know she had this in her! I usually don't linger on it, but I guess it is buried in me, not gone, because all he has to do is call and ask to borrow $ (which he doesn't do nearly as much as he used to - it used to happen every month) and here I go!

ANYWAY, I think God has you posting this stuff here for a reason. He wants to trash this negativity in me, not bury it, but get rid of it in me. Sometimes I think this is one of the things holding me back from growing like I want to. I just really don't want to open that door with my ex. I know what it leads to. One of my darkest fears is that God will want me to take care of him at some point because his kids (our 3 and his older 2) won't want to and his sister's health is not all that great and it will fall on me. I cannot abide this man, although I've let him stay with us for several months at a time while he comes to 'visit' the kids (and then it takes a steam shovel to get rid of him). That situation has gotten much better. When this first started happening I wouldn't even talk to him in a civil tone while he was here for the most part (talk about issues!!!), then I gradually was able to tolerate him for a while, and now I pretty much reluctantly accept it. Oh, and I have a 3 BR 1400 sq ft house so it's not like we have plenty of room! I actually slept in the living room for several years so my then wild 16 year old and innocent 8 year old daughters wouldn't have to share a room.

Anyway, I thank you for sharing your situation. I truly am torn between thinking that God doesn't mean for me to be a patsy and thinking that I'm behaving in a very un-Christlike manner. If I could just be decent to him without being taken advantage of over and over again, it would be much easier. Even though he wasn't like this when I married him, it was a bad decision (not just in hindsight either), but I think I've paid enough for that mistake. It's not something I want to be glued to for the rest of his/my life.

I feel better just being able to unload all that. It's hard not having someone to talk to about this stuff. Although my kids are old enough, I really don't like talking to them about their dad this way - even though they know all this and don't have a lot of respect for him. He is their dad.

[Martin Guthe]

Wow, Paula!
I've sent my ex out of my life a few times and she manages to find a way back in. This last time, I had been guided through dreams and prayer to house the homeless. Out of the blue during that time, she calls and wants to come back to Knoxville. It had been almost a year. The day before I went to get her from Wisconson, Luke called and took me up on my offer. He spent the night at my house. In the morning we went to church and two of my ex-renters attended the church for the first time. They are friends of my son and know his mother. One actually lived with us when my ex and my son were here the first time. Luke and I left town right after church. I took this as a sign that I was doing the right thing.

[Keren]

Hi Paula and Martin. ( this is re:the ex-spouse unloading parts.)
Ive read all of this and dont really have much time to reply or know what to say other than I am glad you felt ok to unload here. I have been in similar situations.

Briefly here... recently what I thought was very negative about the other person may be still there, but there are other very positive aspects about him which I am only now allowing myself to recognise, and I really want him to be a part of my life...I am talking about my husband's son. Long story. More later perhaps.

I guess what I am trying to say is...I am sorry you are having to deal with these burdens (or whatever you call it), ...but I believe there is always hope. One reason I believe this is... things change, our needs change - we change..people can will and do change - and we dont have to make it happen..
Hang in there.
Love
Keren

[Paula]

Yeah, this man is the thorn in my flesh. If I could just know that I would not be taken advantage of over and over again, we could actually get along. I could actually be more Christ-like to him (and believe me, it is MUCH better than it used to be). But I've cracked that door open too many times to know that I will get bitten if I open it again. I hate being used by him. From what little I know about drug addicts, this is him. Maybe he doesn't think so because they are prescribed by a dr. And I really hate it for my kids. They naturally want their dad in their lives, but they recognize him for who he is, even though he doesn't. He has the best of intentions - if only intentions were all that mattered. Thus the war between guilt and self-preservation.

[Keren]

Paula, something just occured to me..please dont think I am telling you what to do or that I think I know better or anything like that...you know how much I admire you and appreciate our friendhsip...yet here it is...

Do you ever watch "the dog whisperer" I love Ceasar Milan. Calm and assertive. Whenever a dog whose nature is to work or perform some task, starts behaving in ways that perhaps demand a lot of attention or any inappropriate behavior. Ceasar suggests giving the Dog a job...something to do...usually it means putting a doggie back pack on them and having them carry the water bottles while they walk.

It gives something to the dog ...it gives him a little sense of purpose and then the dog stops doing the negative behavior.

Maybe if your ex starts asking for something, offer instead something you want him to do...something real like something to do to help with the kids that would use something he may do well or at least good enough. Something he can help them figure out, or something physical whatever that might be...

Something YOU actually personally ask him to do for you. Dont have your kids ask him for you - it would not be the same.

Make sense? I dunno. Again, you probably have tried everything and are at your wits end. or dont want to encourage anything at all within him...so please know I am with you no matter what.




Paula said:

Yeah, this man is the thorn in my flesh. If I could just know that I would not be taken advantage of over and over again, we could actually get along. I could actually be more Christ-like to him (and believe me, it is MUCH better than it used to be). But I've cracked that door open too many times to know that I will get bitten if I open it again. I hate being used by him. From what little I know about drug addicts, this is him. Maybe he doesn't think so because they are prescribed by a dr. And I really hate it for my kids. They naturally want their dad in their lives, but they recognize him for who he is, even though he doesn't. He has the best of intentions - if only intentions were all that mattered. Thus the war between guilt and self-preservation.

[Paula]

Keren, that's actually a good idea. I like the concept. I'll have to mull it over to see how it might work in this situation. I completely appreciate your support and ideas. I don't think it would keep him from asking me for money - which is the bulk of the basis of contention between us. I do think I need to exercise more calm assertiveness especially when he ties up my time on the phone (the other thing that is the most frustrating for me), so that is very applicable. Actually, it would help with the money thing as well. I should have just calmly told him that I didn't have any money to give him, which was true in that it would have left me in a pickle. He definitely needs a sense of purpose.

I don't like conflict which has probably left me in the position of a seething doormat, I would rather seethe than listen to the abusive language (first my mom and then my ex). And the only way I had seen to handle it was to get angry. I think when someone asks something of me that I cannot or do not want to do, the internal conflict is overwhelming and I don't know how to handle it. Sometimes when you get in a rut of behavior it's difficult to see other ways to manage situations, I guess. The more I think about it, the more appropriate calm assertiveness seems. The answer is so simple - I guess you would have to know my history to understand why I didn't go this road before. If I think of ways to handle it beforehand I can probably manage it. It's kind of funny. I'm actually considered a leader type in business situations. It's just in familial relationships that I seem to be such a dishrag.

Thank you, Keren for helping me work through this. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Martin Guthe]

Karen, good idea. I have tried that and my ex won't do anything she doesn't want to do. She says no.
Paula, my ex is also full of advise.
I don't help my ex out financially anymore. Won't even lend any money. When I have before she paid me back too.
I've tried to turn it into a teaching moment. I only have money to borrow because I have chosen to save that money and have resisted the temptation to spend it. As a result, I have had to do without things I feel I need. My ex could have done the same thing. How dare she think she doesn't have to save money and I do in order to help her out! I think God wants us to help people, but not continually. Help them with food, clothing, shelter but not money more than once or twice. They should save their own money.

[Paula]

Thanks, Martin. I like that. Doesn't seem quite so cold hearted. And I do have a warm heart - I think that's what throws me into such conflict. In fact, thinking it over, I know it is. Even with my kids, when they want money to do something that is really a simple request and I'm tight on money, I become so conflicted. I want to give it to them, I HATE saying no, but I know I may need the few dollars that they're asking for before I get paid again.