Faith: what, why, and how? Mechanics or supernatural?

[Lesa Cox]

I have heard of the years, "faith comes by hearing .. hearing the word of God." and If you had "faith as a mustard seed..." but what is really faith?
When you desperately need faith, where does it come from?
How is it increased or can it be increased through spiritual "exercises" or does it get bestowed on us?
Do some folks have more than others?
What happens when you don't 'feel it".
Can it be mustered up or called upon?
Your thoughts?

[Ginny Pamplin]

now that one is going to take some chewing on! I have this collection of words that would try give dictionary definitions of faith--as I am sure you do-- but a definition, even a Scriptural one, cannot of itself impart the essence of faith, let alone truly define it--not the kind of faith that is of God and can call from what is not that which is--is there really a way to break that down into a frame of reference we can comprehend? Can such super natural power be confined in any box we humans possess?The Truth is I have some conceptions loosely knit together by experience that frame out my own personal philosophy of what faith is and how it is in my life....but is that faith...really...

[Keren]

Hi Lesa, I have often pondered the difference between faith and trust, so out of that...

I like to believe that faith comes from part of us ...inside us, and also outside us. Sort of like a baby. we give birth to it, but the ability to do so comes from God, and once it is "out" we need to hold on to it gently and firmly yet not grip it with expectations. I have a couple poems on Faith is like a baby - I posted here before but they got deleted when I "left"... I may post here again somewhere. Just my musings.

Whenever I need faith and it is just not automatically there (sometimes it is but sometimes not) I try to imagine myself holding a sweet baby - sweet fresh baby powder smelling baby, It somehow usually helps me relax and go ahead and respond to what ever has called for faith inside me.

Other times I turn into the baby and just cry awhile...then I can start holding the baby again instead of being one :o)

Have a wonderful Monday, I hope it is as beautiful there as it is here.
Peace
K-T
(P.S> Saint Anthony and Saint Theresa of the Child Jesus, inspired my ponderings)

[Lesa Cox]

oh man that is such a great anaology.. (spelling??) the baby as faith. It grows as it is nurtured..
Hey gave me quite a wee bit to ponder..
Tennessee is beautious right now with all the colours the trees are wearing. I am soooo grateful to God for the beauty of sight.
Have a good week and thanks for the inspiraton.\

Keren-Tea said:

Hi Lesa, I have often pondered the difference between faith and trust, so out of that...

I like to believe that faith comes from part of us ...inside us, and also outside us. Sort of like a baby. we give birth to it, but the ability to do so comes from God, and once it is "out" we need to hold on to it gently and firmly yet not grip it with expectations. I have a couple poems on Faith is like a baby - I posted here before but they got deleted when I "left"... I may post here again somewhere. Just my musings.

Whenever I need faith and it is just not automatically there (sometimes it is but sometimes not) I try to imagine myself holding a sweet baby - sweet fresh baby powder smelling baby, It somehow usually helps me relax and go ahead and respond to what ever has called for faith inside me.

Other times I turn into the baby and just cry awhile...then I can start holding the baby again instead of being one :o)

Have a wonderful Monday, I hope it is as beautiful there as it is here.
Peace
K-T
(P.S> Saint Anthony and Saint Theresa of the Child Jesus, inspired my ponderings)

[Paula]

Faith and prayer...hmmm. Probably two of the most difficult issues for Christians. You guys are good for getting these topics out there.

I like Keren's analogy.

I've wrestled with faith and have come to the conclusion that my faith is in God to help me get through whatever is in my path, and to help me come out a stronger, more mature person, to help me move those mountains that block my progress.

I've tried having faith for specifics, thinking if I just had enough faith things would happen, and have been disappointed many times. My faith just doesn't operate that way. I'm not saying it can't, I'm just saying that's not my experience. But if I need to get through something I can always count on His help. If I need Him to hang onto me, because I'm weak for whatever reason (such as when I was battling depression - what an eye opener that was!), I can count on that.

I'm sure I'll have more to say on the subject as I mull it over, once again. But that's what is on my heart right now.

[Keren]

You are right Paula..Faith in itself does not make things happen. It allows you to do difficult stuff you dont want to do.
God's will is God's will not ours. Faith carries us through the hard and tough times, helps us let go of non-life-giving situations, helps us get out of comfort zone and ruts, helps us start new ventures, make new friends, new discoveries etc, or re-unite with a separated friend, etc.

Something I heard once...faith kicks in at the moment you take a step in any new direction. Something you have not done before...Not while you think about it, but while you are taking that first step.

Conversely I am the type that has to slam my hand in the car door over and over again before I learn to just not put it in there in the first place. But that is experience more than faith.

More musings..
Peace
K-T

Paula said:

Faith and prayer...hmmm. Probably two of the most difficult issues for Christians. You guys are good for getting these topics out there.

I like Keren's analogy.

I've wrestled with faith and have come to the conclusion that my faith is in God to help me get through whatever is in my path, and to help me come out a stronger, more mature person, to help me move those mountains that block my progress.

I've tried having faith for specifics, thinking if I just had enough faith things would happen, and have been disappointed many times. My faith just doesn't operate that way. I'm not saying it can't, I'm just saying that's not my experience. But if I need to get through something I can always count on His help. If I need Him to hang onto me, because I'm weak for whatever reason (such as when I was battling depression - what an eye opener that was!), I can count on that.

I'm sure I'll have more to say on the subject as I mull it over, once again. But that's what is on my heart right now.

[Lesa Cox]

yeah,when i try to "force" my faith or "muster up" faith it is always faked and just falls flat. So I almost have to do a thing where it is but letting it be.
This is some interesting thoughts.

Keren-Tea said:

You are right Paula..Faith in itself does not make things happen. It allows you to do difficult stuff you dont want to do.
God's will is God's will not ours. Faith carries us through the hard and tough times, helps us let go of non-life-giving situations, helps us get out of comfort zone and ruts, helps us start new ventures, make new friends, new discoveries etc, or re-unite with a separated friend, etc.

Something I heard once...faith kicks in at the moment you take a step in any new direction. Something you have not done before...Not while you think about it, but while you are taking that first step.

Conversely I am the type that has to slam my hand in the car door over and over again before I learn to just not put it in there in the first place. But that is experience more than faith.

More musings..
Peace
K-T

Paula said:

Faith and prayer...hmmm. Probably two of the most difficult issues for Christians. You guys are good for getting these topics out there.

I like Keren's analogy.

I've wrestled with faith and have come to the conclusion that my faith is in God to help me get through whatever is in my path, and to help me come out a stronger, more mature person, to help me move those mountains that block my progress.

I've tried having faith for specifics, thinking if I just had enough faith things would happen, and have been disappointed many times. My faith just doesn't operate that way. I'm not saying it can't, I'm just saying that's not my experience. But if I need to get through something I can always count on His help. If I need Him to hang onto me, because I'm weak for whatever reason (such as when I was battling depression - what an eye opener that was!), I can count on that.

I'm sure I'll have more to say on the subject as I mull it over, once again. But that's what is on my heart right now.

[Keren]

Ok - I just got back from All Souls Day Mass, and prior to that a lonely walk in circles over and around an empty basketball court. Seriously.

When I got home I had a thought about this post and the faith power box (as Jinny aluded to) aka mustard seed.

In this story...the protagonist is the person with faith, and the antagonist is the Mountain.

What makes the mountain the antagonist?...Is it the mountain's immovableness? What describes the mountain's immovable-ness? Could it be its "patience"/ "endurance" or simply its size or stature.
Yes the mountain has stature and size, but we dont know its substance, that is one variable in mountains.

Perhaps substance is inconsequential, the mountain can afford patience because it has nothing to lose...it knows it doesnt have control over where it goes..and It has all the time in the world to be moved.

Or maybe it is like in business negotiations...you can go for win-win or whatever, but the side that has the least to lose usually has the most to gain - the side who has most to lose only has most to lose.

So it seems the protagonist has to have more "least to lose" to make something major happen with this mountain.

Huh..and Yikes...Hmmm.
Strange musings I know... I almost deleted this but decided not to.


Peace
K

[Paula]

Keren, you say:

Keren-Tea said:

You are right Paula..Faith in itself does not make things happen.

But this is what puzzles me:

And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me! And many warned him that he should be quiet, but he cried a great deal more, Son of David, have mercy on me! And Jesus stood still and commanded him to be called. And they called the blind man, saying to him, Be of good comfort; rise up, He is calling you. And casting away his garment, he rose up and came to Jesus. And answering Jesus said to him, What do you desire that I should do to you? The blind man said to Him, My Lord, that I may see again. And Jesus said to him, Go, your faith has healed you. And instantly he saw again, and he followed Jesus in the way. Mark 10:47-52 and

And when Jesus passed on from there, two blind ones followed Him, crying and saying, Son of David, have mercy on us. And when He had come into the house, the blind men came to Him. And Jesus said to them, Do you believe that I am able to do this? They said to Him, Yes, Lord. Then He touched their eyes, saying, According to your faith let it be to you. Matthew 9:27-29

and

And behold, a woman, who had a flow of blood for twelve years, came up behind Him and touched the hem of His garment. For she said within herself, If only I shall touch His robe, I will be whole. But turning and seeing her, Jesus said, Daughter, be comforted; your faith has saved you. And the woman was saved from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22

and

Then Jesus answered and said to her, O woman, great is your faith! So be it to you even as you wish. And her daughter was healed from that very hour. Matthew 15:28

And as I was pulling this together I realized, that is was not faith alone, but faith and Jesus. But I decided to leave this, just in case there is someone else out there that this bothers.

[Keren]

Paula it seems that these stories all the characters have great desire to be healed. The Mountain on the other hand doesnt care. So a "healer' with a willing subject may be using a different method of faith, than a "healer' who wants to move a mountain.

If you have ever had anyone purposely and repeatedly try to test your faith just to see how you react, you sort of start sympathizing with the mountain... you still have faith but you no longer care if you get moved or not by that person(s).
You forgive the person(s) and love them very much.....but you no longer respond to that kind of "treatment". You just rely on God/Jesus to do any moving for you at, and repeat the mantra "God loves me just as I am, even if I am a mountain".

I am going to stick with the baby.

Paula said:

Keren, you say:

Keren-Tea said:

You are right Paula..Faith in itself does not make things happen.

But this is what puzzles me:

And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me! And many warned him that he should be quiet, but he cried a great deal more, Son of David, have mercy on me! And Jesus stood still and commanded him to be called. And they called the blind man, saying to him, Be of good comfort; rise up, He is calling you. And casting away his garment, he rose up and came to Jesus. And answering Jesus said to him, What do you desire that I should do to you? The blind man said to Him, My Lord, that I may see again. And Jesus said to him, Go, your faith has healed you. And instantly he saw again, and he followed Jesus in the way. Mark 10:47-52 and

And when Jesus passed on from there, two blind ones followed Him, crying and saying, Son of David, have mercy on us. And when He had come into the house, the blind men came to Him. And Jesus said to them, Do you believe that I am able to do this? They said to Him, Yes, Lord. Then He touched their eyes, saying, According to your faith let it be to you. Matthew 9:27-29

and

And behold, a woman, who had a flow of blood for twelve years, came up behind Him and touched the hem of His garment. For she said within herself, If only I shall touch His robe, I will be whole. But turning and seeing her, Jesus said, Daughter, be comforted; your faith has saved you. And the woman was saved from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22

and

Then Jesus answered and said to her, O woman, great is your faith! So be it to you even as you wish. And her daughter was healed from that very hour. Matthew 15:28

And as I was pulling this together I realized, that is was not faith alone, but faith and Jesus. But I decided to leave this, just in case there is someone else out there that this bothers.

[Patti Palmer]

Faith = a direct decision to embrace a belief. For myself: a belief that God is Alpha/Omega, Creator, Everlasting, All in All, Father-Son-Spirit, King, Counselor, Prince of Peace, Redeemer, Friend...and on! I believe that it is a conviction that depends on us as humans and our relationship with the Spirt, allowing Him to bring us to a full realization of Truth. Even though I will not understand this Truth completely until the New Earth.

The Greek word used in Matthew 17 and in other scripture for 'faith' is pistis=conviction of the truth of anything. A broad definition, indeed. Its root word is: peitho=persuade.

I love that faith is a noun as in pistis, but is derived from a verb in peitho.

My complete faith in God will result in my life lived in a way the actively touches others in ways that 'move mountains'. It isn't the mountain that is important, it is the 'seed', something that is alive with ability to do much more than it looks like on the outside. From a tiny seed, comes a large tree. From a tiny faith, comes great possibilities.

A few words from a feeble mind.
Patti


Faith is something that states what I have and at the same time is action and movement in what I believe.

[Ginny Pamplin]

Faith, by its broadest definition, is the decision to call a thing Truth. We do this in varying degrees about so many things all thru the day without even consciously thinking about it. Yet, because we believe a thing to be Truth, does it mean that it actually IS Truth? I lean toward Paula's take, that it is Faith plus Jesus that actually activates the supernatural power of God, and here is why: Jesus is the Truth. There is no other. He is Pure Truth, and to know this on a sub atomic dna level, so that there is no question or shadow of turning, is to have access to the Power of Who He is. By access, I do not mean control. There is a difference! It is said that the expression(communication) of our faith is made effectual(activated and energized) by the acknowleding(knowing completely) every good thing that is us in Christ Jesus-by knowing the Truth of Him Who is Good and Who is in Us. Philemon 1:6 Not that such a thing could every be simply described for it is as individual as our relationship with the Truth. That is why I am still musing! Maybe I can find more words....

[Paula]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God - or is it Word of God? My sheep know My voice. What builds up your faith? What encourages you? What about on a purely human level? Communication? Knowing a person? What increases your knowledge of a person? Spending time with them? Again, communication? In a perfect world, if you could know that what that person said to you was absolute truth, your faith in them would be strong.

We cannot physically see God. We can see the results of where He has been, we can see Him in all of His creation. We can sense His presence, some of us may even hear Him audibly. We can read what He has to say to us. We can commune with Him in spirit. We have Him inside of us. We can get to know Him on a personal level. All by listening with our hearts to the word or Word of God. All of this builds up our faith. When does our faith weaken? When we lose sight of who He is. When we get our eyes on our circumstances, and take our eyes off Him. Faith is something that must be nurtured, as in Keren's baby analogy.

As I said earlier, I have learned that my faith is in Him lovingly keeping me, guiding me, getting me through any figurative mountain that is in my way. Those are the mountains that my seed of faith moves. My faith is in His goodness, His love, in Him.

I think where we as humans screw up is when we try to make it about physical results - I need this, I need that. If I just have enough faith.... Why didn't what I believe for happened? I must not have had enough faith because God said.... I think we complicate faith by making it about something that it is not. He never promised a rose garden - in fact He said that in this world we would have trouble, but not to fear because He is with us. "Fear not, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, I will help you. I will uphold you with My victorious right hand." That is something we can have faith in.